Dungeon Crawlers Community

General => Painting Clinic => : parvus_machina September 26, 2007, 05:22:54 PM

: Things that make you go.....WHOA!!
: parvus_machina September 26, 2007, 05:22:54 PM
Thought I'd jump start this thread with an open question to the DC community:

What painting technique or style, have you seen on the net that just blows your mind? (NMM, SE-NMM, Blending a certain color, OSL, skin tones)

For me it is NMM and SE-NMM.  (Non-metallic metal and Sky/earth nmm).  I have seen some spectacular examples of blending non-metallics that the mini actually looks like a drawing.  I personally don't care to try the NMM technique for a few reasons:

1) While this is a great technique for photographed minis, in real life, it doesnt look right as the reflections do not move with the light source.
2) It does not lend itself to a "realistic" look on a mini.

While not a huge fan of this technique, I can respect the level of skill and talent that goes into achieving the affect.
: Re:Things that make you go.....WHOA!!
: IbsontheGrey September 27, 2007, 11:38:23 AM
Wondered what NMM meant. Saw some examples and while they looked interesting, I agree that the shading in real life would look silly.

I've been real impressed with tartan and check patterns that I have seen lately. Also, small readable writing on minis... my hands were NEVER that steady!
: Re:Things that make you go.....WHOA!!
: parvus_machina September 27, 2007, 02:37:30 PM
I'd agree with you on the tartan patterns, some are truly awesome!  I have seen some articles in White Dwarf and on the net about lettering and some tips/tricks but I have yet to try it out myself.  I am usually on some kind of deadline when I paint minis and try to stick with what I know. Right now I dont have time to learn a new technique.
: Re:Things that make you go.....WHOA!!
: Highland_Piper September 27, 2007, 07:20:44 PM
I've been using prepaints for so long I forgot what paint is.  I've always been a horrible painter, no matter how much I practiced.

I've always enjoyed the extra detail to lenses, trims on cloaks, ruins in an open magice book, that kind of thing.

Welcome back parvus_machina
: Re:Things that make you go.....WHOA!!
: rob September 28, 2007, 12:13:35 AM
I think NMM looks good in a diorama but agree, it can look out of place.

I'm not sure what the "official" name is but Point Source Lighting is my Holy Grail.

I can't paint anywhere near your level and I mainly do terrain but here's my lame attempt to paint lighting effects.

(http://www.dungeoncrawlers.com/albums/album09/room4.sized.jpg)<br><br>Post edited by: rob, at: 2007/09/28 01:14
: Re:Things that make you go.....WHOA!!
: parvus_machina September 28, 2007, 01:21:50 AM
That is great looking fire and source lighting!  I have a hard time with source lighting, and my attempts at fire are so bad, I haven't even taken any pictures.  I remember seeing this from the old site, wasn't this for the terrain contest where you had to use chicken bones?  LOL.....that was an awesome idea for a contest!
: Re:Things that make you go.....WHOA!!
: rob September 28, 2007, 05:59:23 AM
Heh. Yes. That was my entry in the Chicken Bone Contest. Great idea, not enough takers thou. Too Complex? Too Gross? Who knows.

I want to have another contest but I don't know what yet.

(http://www.dungeoncrawlers.com/albums/album09/room5.jpg)
: Re:Things that make you go.....WHOA!!
: parvus_machina September 28, 2007, 09:25:41 AM
: "rob"
Too Complex? Too Gross? Who knows.
I think a little of both maybe?

I want to have another contest but I don't know what yet.
 
Let me know if you need prize support or judging support, I would be interested in assisting with this.
: Re:Things that make you go.....WHOA!!
: rob September 28, 2007, 11:46:08 AM
: "parvus_machina"
Let me know if you need prize support or judging support, I would be interested in assisting with this.

Maybe a little of both? :-)

I'm willing to put up a 60 paint set of Vallejo Game Colors. I Know Geoff will donate some Fantascene Terrain (http://www.fantascene.net).

The first painting contest worked well because we picked a newly released mini (no old paint jobs that have seen a dozen contests) and we supplied it at cost to people that couldn't find it locally.

Maybe we should talk to Sally at Hasselfree Miniatures? :)

I'm open to any ideas though. Have you got any thoughts?
: Re:Things that make you go.....WHOA!!
: parvus_machina September 28, 2007, 02:09:20 PM
That is a good idea.  HassleFree has a real nice line of minis.

We could also contact Reaper.  I hear they are real good about providing prize support.  I could post a request on their forum?

Or, put up a poll and let members of the site vote.  Terrain?  Mini? Diorama?  How about themed contests?  

Another idea for prizes would be custom forum avatars (if possible?) or we could try contacting Gale Force 9?  They make cool game aids.
: Re:Things that make you go.....WHOA!!
: rob September 28, 2007, 03:13:37 PM
I can do the poll easy enough. I'll work on that. Avatars I can do also.

We should decide on the contest first. Don't know that reaper would be happy with me giving away vallejo paint :-)

I've got a busy weekend but I'll give it some more thought. Hopefully, some of the others will pipe up with some suggestions. :whistle:
: Re:Things that make you go.....WHOA!!
: NightCastle October 01, 2007, 09:19:18 AM
Hey guys.  I would like to share some of my painting experience with you.  I am not trying to brag, please realize that.  I am just trying to share, and there is a point to what I am stating.

I have done several types of painting with respect to the realism/cartoonishness (did I just make up a word?) of the minuatures.  I painted minatures before I got into MK and even went as far as to build some structures on a relatively large scale (I mean a large building for 25th scale miniatures).  

The first miniatures painting competition I entered into, I painted my subject with realism in mind and that got some respect, but didn't win me the prize.  I looked at the first, second and third place winners (I got honorable mention) and saw that all of them incorporated a cartoon-like paint scheme.  I proceeded to teach myself how to do this and before long my stuff started to resemble the cartoon schemes that seemed to be the "craze".  

Needless to say, I played around with checkers and the such and when I finished the first figure, with red and white checkers, (WH 40K Harlequin) I figured I had it down.  It took me only 6 hours to finish the leg.  It had roughly millimeter squared blocks on the leg alternating from one color to the next.  

I have since improved greatly in quality and I have gotten much faster with the painting.  I painted another harlequin with a plaid cloak a little after that.  On my favorite miniature I painted an alternating checker pattern on his loin cloth that I reversed on the back side.  I included veins on one leg, pin-striping on the other and to top it off, I painted the pages of the book with a brush that had 3 hairs on it and in some places (on the pages) I had to use a needle.  The page on the left had a gradient of a blue to black (bottom to top respectively) night sky and the siloette of a castle with lights on inside it and on the next page, the same image, except the castle was on fire.

I took a break from painting for a while (several years) after completing a few projects since then, but in 2005, I enter a painting contest at Dragon Con and won a paint set.  It was for a (at that time) relatively new Canadian company.  I did that one in 2.5 hours with the equipment and paint that they supplied to everyone.  I discovered that they were having the contest on the second day of the contest with only 3 hours left.


Chek it out.  Mine is the only one with a closeup of the fig in the bottom of the winner picture.
This is the link (http://www.adiken.com/Events/dragon_con_page.htm)




...all that to say that I like realism, but it seems that the cartoonish paint jobs seem to catch more eyes.

NightCastle
: Re:Things that make you go.....WHOA!!
: WyvernEye October 06, 2007, 04:08:34 PM
Did I hear painting contest?????

Tell me more!!!!

Oh, hello all... I moved, started a few jobs, yatta/yatta. I see the new site is nice and crsip looking! Nice Rob!

I have enjoyed the look of NNM, even tried it a few times with limited success. I like tatoos on figs, they look sweet. Just put one on one of my Necromancers, and am considering painting a Medusa head on her back but my freehand sucks. We'll see. My army is the Medusa's Guild. I think i will convert a few zombies to have snake parts, and what not.


So.... back to this painting contest.... :-)

Jay
: Re:Things that make you go.....WHOA!!
: rob October 07, 2007, 02:59:31 AM
wb WyvernEye :woohoo:

Got any suggestions for a painting contest?
: Re:Things that make you go.....WHOA!!
: rob October 07, 2007, 03:07:02 AM
: "NightCastle"
...all that to say that I like realism, but it seems that the cartoonish paint jobs seem to catch more eyes.

NightCastle
Interesting observation. I think I've never put it to words but I agree. My biggest failing as a painter is that I paint too dark. Revisiting that comment I'd have to say that I paint too real ;) (kinda funny when you're talking about things that don't exist).
: Re:Things that make you go.....WHOA!!
: NightCastle October 09, 2007, 07:20:59 AM
Painting Contest?

Hmmm.

What about splitting it up into categories?

Various categories could include:

cartoonish and/or realism for the following:

most gory
most colorful
most elaborate
best shadowing/lighting simulation
best modification (best mod for short)
best flesh painting
best skeletal painting
best scenery
best diorama


Just some suggestions.

NightCastle
: Re:Things that make you go.....WHOA!!
: NightCastle October 09, 2007, 07:25:53 AM
Rob, my personal preference was to paint with a realism style.  After a while, though, I saw that there were ways to pull off the more "cartoonish" paintjobs and still seem somewhat realistic.  IT is a subtle difference, but once you play with both styles, it makes it easier to mix the two styles.  I also found that bright colors can be incorporated into "dark" sculpts and still give a "sinister" or "dark" feel.  Since you already have the paints; why not try it sometime?

NightCastle
: Re:Things that make you go.....WHOA!!
: rob October 09, 2007, 11:31:26 AM
Heh. You realize I'm the world's slowest painter don't you? I've tried to "brighten" up but when I get out of my comfort zone I get even slower :laugh:

I think my b:laugh: biggest real problem is to lighten up emotionally. I worry about the exactness of every step rather than just moving along. If I could relax, I might actually get more stuff painted.
: Re:Things that make you go.....WHOA!!
: NightCastle October 10, 2007, 01:27:57 AM
: "rob"
Heh. You realize I'm the world's slowest painter don't you? I've tried to "brighten" up but when I get out of my comfort zone I get even slower :laugh:

I think my b:laugh: biggest real problem is to lighten up emotionally. I worry about the exactness of every step rather than just moving along. If I could relax, I might actually get more stuff painted.


I heard some "mumbo-jumbo" a long time ago that I figured might worked.  I thought that I would give it a try (not that you would have time to try it now).  I worked on a particular style or technique of painting, then took a break for almost a year.  When I started painting again, not only was I able to paint using that technique in a better quality, but I was also able to use the technique faster.  

As I stated, you probably won't have time to try it now, but it could be something to consider.  You might not have to take such a long break.  The premise of the approach was to let your mind subconciously work things out and when you get back to doing what you were working on, your mind has figured out what you need to understand (I don't know how) to make it work.  It allowed me to paint using the technique and not have to re-think the brush strokes or amount of paint used in the process.

I can't say that this would work for other things, but it definitely helped me with painting.  Take it for what you will.  I originally thought it was "mumbo-jumbo", myself.:)

NightCastle
: Re:Things that make you go.....WHOA!!
: parvus_machina October 10, 2007, 01:34:15 AM
: "NightCastle"
The first miniatures painting competition I entered into, I painted my subject with realism in mind and that got some respect, but didn't win me the prize.  I looked at the first, second and third place winners (I got honorable mention) and saw that all of them incorporated a cartoon-like paint scheme.  I proceeded to teach myself how to do this and before long my stuff started to resemble the cartoon schemes that seemed to be the "craze".  

See the thing about mini painting contests is that it is more an "art" contest than a contest of skill.  What one judge or group of judges consider "good" another may find to be utter crap or not worthy of a top 3 place in a contest.  The judging is subjective.  "Realism" or "cartoonish"  really boils down to a judges own preference.  

Also look at the level of competition.  There are usually only 3 places in any given category.  Well, what if there are 4 or more entries that "deserve" to place?  Then it comes down to really nit-picking the pieces apart.

Changing your painting style to match the preference of a judge(s) can be a risky move as I've seen tastes change from year to year.  One year it appears as if all you have to do is make a fig from Nurgle and you'll place, another year it is dreadnaughts.  

Plus, take into consideration the contest you are at.  Is it a GamesDay?  Origins? GenCon?  I have found that GenCon is the most open of the group when it comes to a mini painting contest.  Any manufacturer and various styles have taken top honors in the past.  Plus there are the manufacturer's awards as well.

At Games Days, well, all you get is GamesWorkshop overload.  I have had some success (well, two first cuts, "somewhat" success!) when entering a GW contest by entering something from a fairly new line of minis, or something that is not done very often (avoid Space Marines, they are EVERYWHERE!).

...all that to say that I like realism, but it seems that the cartoonish paint jobs seem to catch more eyes.


I would have to disagree on this point.  When talking about harlequins, they are SUPPOSED to be brightly colored (based on the background fluff).  But I have seen "realistic" looking minis win awards.  Heck I have won some awards (Adepticon, GW hobby centers) and I consider my style to be VERY dark and realistic.

Bottom line is:  Everyone paints for different reasons.  If you are looking to win awards, then maybe changing your style with the hopes of matching the likes of a judge, is the way to go.  If you paint to sell, then there are certain techniques that collector's look for.  If you just paint because you would rather spend more time gaming, then the paint jobs may look rushed.  Just do what you love.
: Re:Things that make you go.....WHOA!!
: NightCastle October 10, 2007, 08:39:25 AM
parvus_machina wrote:
I would have to disagree on this point.  When talking about harlequins, they are SUPPOSED to be brightly colored (based on the background fluff).  But I have seen "realistic" looking minis win awards.  Heck I have won some awards (Adepticon, GW hobby centers) and I consider my style to be VERY dark and realistic. [/quote]


The miniature that I painted and entered into my first contest was the Greater Daemon of Khorne. It was a random packing of a winged demon.  It was also custom base job where the demon was walking out of a pool of blood and had a realistic look to it.  The paint that was on the axe he had was not only dripping from the axe, it was splattered on his body in such a way as to reflect the realistic spalttering from the axe hand.

All of the winners seemed to be Eldar types.  Maybe that is why I seemed to have no chance.  All of the jusdges told me that my minature was very good, but what they were looking for was the cartoonish look.  They even demonstrated to me that most of the people walking by were more visually distracted by the more cartoonish paint jobs.

It was the harlequins that I started experimenting with the cartoonish look and the more "in-your-face" details like checkers and plaid.  That was after my first contest.  

I agree that the dark stuff can be made in a cartoonish fashion as well, though, as the miniature that I was describing with the book was a chaos knight.  I painted it when I was working on mixing the dark and cartoonish looks.  

parvus_machina wrote:
Bottom line is: Everyone paints for different reasons. If you are looking to win awards, then maybe changing your style with the hopes of matching the likes of a judge, is the way to go. If you paint to sell, then there are certain techniques that collector's look for. If you just paint because you would rather spend more time gaming, then the paint jobs may look rushed. Just do what you love. [/quote]


My original reason for painting was for fun.  Then after I was encouraged to enter the contest by friends, I realized that there was something to the "cartoonish" look that I liked.  I started painting in that style initially out of a competitive spirit.  But after proving to myself that not only could I paint that way, I could better it; I started working on speed and even finer details.  In the end I do it because I love to.  So I guess you could say that my philosophy would be the same as your last sentence.

Thanks for the responces.  Keep up the passion for what you do guys!

NightCastle<br><br>Post edited by: NightCastle, at: 2007/10/10 09:40
: Re:Things that make you go.....WHOA!!
: WyvernEye October 13, 2007, 04:44:03 PM
Ahhh, painting too dark. Seems to be common :-)

I also have comfort colors that I use WAY too much and have tried to paint outside my little box and try new colors and blends, really making myself broaden my spectrum, and it has yeilded much better looking minis. Get out of that "it's supposed to be this color" and go with "it would look cool if i did this instead".

I really wanted to do my undead army with purple, but red seemed to be the more appropriate color. A good friend said the purple would be hard to make work too. Even went to buy nice swirly purple dice for the army!
I painted a few red, then threw my caution to the wind and went purple, with a bright vile green for an accent. At first I didnt like it, then I loved it. I am calling my army the Medusa's Guild. I may even attempt to paint a medusa on my Necromancers back as a tatoo. We'll see, I have trouble drawing sticfk figures. The purple and green look fantastic together though, and I am not stuck in that undead red and black thing...

As for a figure for the painting contest.. will think on that. One more week of working like a perro then it's me time ...!

Sure nice to see everyone again!
J
: Re:Things that make you go.....WHOA!!
: rob October 14, 2007, 02:55:13 AM
I did purple and gold on dark eldar... worked out well but the comment on comfort colors made me think. Mine seems to be green... looking at my models as a mass that is.
: Re:Things that make you go.....WHOA!!
: WyvernEye October 15, 2007, 02:02:41 AM
Hmmm, you dont have a large orc/goblin army do you???? :-)
Mine seems to be blue I think.

Just did my first free-hand painting on a banner this morning (other than random dwarf symbols)for my Medusa's guild. Turned out sweet I think!
Usually I cant draw worth crap. I may just have to do it as a tattoo on her back... Soo tempting...

What else is everyone painting? I am also working on the 8 College Wizards for the empire for a friend.

Fig -compatition- Someone said Hasslefree? That might be what I am thinking of too. I am at my work's computer so I dont seem to have access to all my fav. sites. At CMON they have some figs there, with a good and bad fairy, some x-mas ones, trying to think of what else. It could be privateer press. There a bit pricier though I think running into the $12 and $13US a piece. reaper would be easier to obtain though.

J
: Re:Things that make you go.....WHOA!!
: NightCastle October 16, 2007, 04:51:32 AM
: "WyvernEye"
Usually I cant draw worth crap. I may just have to do it as a tattoo on her back... Soo tempting...

What else is everyone painting? I am also working on the 8 College Wizards for the empire for a friend.


I'v noticed that being able to draw may help, but for the most part doesn't seem to really affect painting skills.  Keep it up WyvernEye!:cheer:

I wish I had time to paint. All I seem to have time for lately is work and finishing my degree.:(

NightCastle
: Re:Things that make you go.....WHOA!!
: WyvernEye October 17, 2007, 02:57:04 AM
The only reason I have time to paint is because i wake up early to do so. i havent "slept in" since May. Guess I figure 6 hours of sleep and 1/2 hour painting isnt much different than 6 1/2 hours sleep. On my days off I wake up early anyways before the kids and sneak downstairs,  repair the damage done by the 2 new kittens, and sneak in an hour. Got my mini coffee pot, mug warmer, and small fridge next to my painting table so I am ready to paint! Leaving it all set up makes me more prone to paint compared to when I used to pack it up and paint somewhere else.
If the cats would stop drinking hte painting water, I wouldnt even need to get water before painting!!!!
: Re:Things that make you go.....WHOA!!
: NightCastle October 18, 2007, 01:25:35 AM
It is good to here from someone else who views painting as a relaxing thing.

More power to you!

NightCastle
: Re:Things that make you go.....WHOA!!
: WyvernEye October 18, 2007, 01:56:52 AM
IF I didnt paint I would go stir-crazy... IT is very relaxing and is my time out from the craziness of LIFE. I try to make it a priority, second only to important things like family and work. I have started letting my son paint some of my regiment figs too, he likes seeing them displayed in with my troops, makes him happy. I field them when I play my games. He's only 5, but he enjoys it so letting him paint a few he gets to enjoy my hobby too.

J
: Re:Things that make you go.....WHOA!!
: NightCastle October 19, 2007, 01:34:28 AM
That is just awesome.  Something that you and your son can bond over.  Since he is starting so young, he will have a chance to become really good.

Karma to you my friend.

NightCastle
: Re:Things that make you go.....WHOA!!
: kboleen March 22, 2008, 05:59:44 PM
Personally, I'm just amazed at dry-brushing. It is the simplist technique that just about anyone can do that just "finishes" a project. Beauty in simplicity.
: Re:Things that make you go.....WHOA!!
: rob March 23, 2008, 02:49:45 AM
Taking this one step further... I do a type of dry brushing with dark colors (the opposite of normal dry brushing). In corners or recessed areas, I use black to build up shadows. Along the ground line, I use brown to show a build up of dirt.
: Re: Things that make you go.....WHOA!!
: lucabbedirectory January 29, 2021, 12:41:03 AM
I am really amazed by NMM. I've watched on YouTube how they install it and it excites me lol. Local Citations (https://localcitationguru.com/)